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July 29, 2003

Child torture device...

I'm still trying to decide if I think they are serious on this site. It looks as though they are! How sick can people get?

http://www.b-stik.com/

Survey Says

General Survey

B-Stik™ has multiple uses, all of which are related to the delivery of a safe, effective, low to high force impact to an individual or to an animal which eliminates the risk of any actual harm to the individual or animal being impacted, or even to the individual delivering the impact.

It is the first and only alternative discipline device for children designed specifically to avoid harm or injury which can often occur as a result of physical discipline with the belt, strap, switch, hand or anything that may harm or injure a child when physically correcting their misconduct.

When used in combination with tapotement, as massage enhancement therapy, B-Stik prevents bone on bone collisions which may result in tissue damage.

As a pet training device, B-Stik will eliminate any fear of the owner’s hand in cases where the owner physically disciplines an animal while completely eliminating any possibility that the animal will be harmed.

posted by Tamra at 11:56 AM

Comments

Good Grief. That is sick. I hope it's not serious and I really pray no one is actually buying that product.

Posted by: Carol on July 29, 2003 07:59 PM

I cannot believe that someone would actually think that this product is not child abuse. I wouldn't even use it on my dog. This is all just so wrong.

Posted by: Tamara on August 1, 2003 08:34 AM

Let me tell you that what is on the site is serious and I would also like to tell you what is real seeing that you are obviously out of touch with reality! The belt, strap, switch, HAND, FIST or anything else people use AND will continue to use to harm or injure children are the REAL torture devices in this country. I didn’t see any mention of that!

Whether you want to accept the fact that parents believe and practice physical discipline is up to you, but the longer society (and people like you) keeps it in the dark the longer children will keep being harmed by conventional methods that have proven harmful. It is too easy to create the potential for abuse with regard to children by conventional methods.

I will assume by your remarks of disbelief about this product that you prefer the status quo. It seems to me that you prefer children to keep being harmed or injured. Why is that?

This product has been introduced for the benefit of parents who want a safer alternative to physically discipline their children. Notice I said parents that physically discipline, just want to clarify that because it seems people sometimes have a comprehension problem. It’s very logical to me that if they’re going to do it anyway why not do it safer!

My concern is the children! Not idiots with negative beliefs. It’s not up to us to decide how parents raise their children; as long as they aren’t being harmed or injured it’s none of our business.

It took almost two years of work inventing this product, all with good intentions in mind, unlike your comments about it. It has gone through rigorous testing and I feel it is a viable product and is urgently needed.

Like any good parent, your concern should be the children, your reaction and comments do not support that, you are a detriment to all children that face potential abuse from conventional methods of discipline. Every second of every day a wonderful child is at the mercy of conventional discipline methods, they will have you to thank for that, so keep up the good work you are doing by providing these negative comments. You just may save a child’s life.

Inventor of B-Stik
Steven Robyor
1024, Inc.

Carol:

Sales are great! I am getting so many thanks from parents and massage therapists for saving their hands.

Posted by: Steve on August 5, 2003 01:46 AM

While I think you purpose is commendable, I absolutely have to disagree with you. Abusers are not going to purchase your product, why would they waste money on something when any old item around the house will do? You are making it possible for people to abuse their children without repercussion. How will it ever be discovered that the child is being abused, if there are no external bruises? How do you know that someone won't abuse your product. I'm sure it's possible to use your product to the extent that the child is in horrible pain.

I firmly believe that every form of using physical pain is lazy abusive parenting. And all your product has done is make it EASIER to abuse, not to stop it like you claim.

Posted by: ModernMother on August 5, 2003 09:50 AM

You make a valued point. I’m trying to prevent loving parents that use physical punishment as a correction for child misconduct from becoming potential abusers! The abuser that has the will to abuse will do it no matter what and with irrational thinking try to get away with it and allow a child to die in the process of trying to cover it up. That isn’t discipline, that’s abuse in the worse form, not to mention criminal thinking.

This product will show abuse if it's over-used. If you have read the web site you would have known that.

I would rather have this product in the hands of an abuser than a belt, strap, switch, hand or anything that DOES harm or has the potential to cause the death of a child. This product may leave mild bruising if over-used, but it will never harm or cause the death of a child! That is my concern. The “pain” associated with this product is minimal compared to conventional methods. A child can survive a bruise!

The two year-old child in Miami that inspired me to go forward with this product two years ago was punched in the stomach for soiling his pants. He was punched once; he died from that one punch! Makes you think, huh?

I raised my son without ever laying a hand on him; I’m neither a “pro,” nor an “anti” spanker. I am an individual! I love my son dearly, but I don't like him. He turned out to be a rotten adult. I used reasoning, time-outs, grounding, and talked till I was blue in the face in the most loving way. I told him everything any loving parent would.

End result: It didn't work!

He's sitting in jail now at 22 years old from the lack of ramifications that he missed out on growing up and getting away with every bad thing he could and having the utmost disrespect for authority.

He wishes now that I had physically disciplined him as a child, and, so do I. It sickens me to think that he’s in such a terrible place. I let him down because I didn’t make him understand the costs associated with his behavior as a child. He disagrees, but I have to live with that.

I was lucky to have been physically disciplined as a child. My parents loved me enough to warm my backside for the wrong I did and reasoned the rights for what I was about to do and making me understand the difference. I never feared my physical discipline just what I was going to wrong next which made me ask before I did anything. Their advice always proved right.

Any “anti-spanker” that has raised a child with negative results is relating to this at this very moment. I sympathize with you one-hundred percent and I hope no ill-will became of your children.

Steven Robyor
1024, Inc.

Posted by: Steve on August 5, 2003 02:52 PM

Steve, It sounds like your heart is in the right place and it also sounds like you have some serious regrets about the way you raised your son. I have to agree with Tamra though. I also do not use physical punishment with my three boys. I cannot wrap my brain around the concept that you should hit a child to teach them to behave. If that is the only motivation for behaving, what will happen when they are adults? I want my boys to know that violence against another person (or animal for that matter) is wrong and that they need to have an internal sense of right and wrong.

I also agree with Tamra that people who abuse their children (that you are hoping to change) will not bother with your product. It most definitely gives the stamp of approval to physical discipline. I have no doubt that you are too invested and too close to your invention to understand the negative ramifications of this device.

I was raised with physical discipline (both abusive in your definition and "nonabusive") and I turned out just fine with a college degree, military officer commission and a 20 year military career. However (you knew it was coming didn't you), my two sisters and brother did not. My brother is a drug abuser with plenty of jail time, my one sister married an abuser and my other sister is horribly depressed and just gave up custody of her son due to her circumstances. So, one out of four ain't bad right?

While I appreciate the effort you put into inventing this device (my father in law is an inventor so I really do know how hard it is), I will continue to educate the families I come into contact with as a labor and delivery nurse that physical discipline is harmful. I will show them resources (loads) out there that will help them unlearn this parenting method that they were raised with. I will let them know that being a parent is often hard work and that there are plenty of arm chair scientists out there that will purport to "help" but it will simply boil down to honest, thoughtful parenting not the quick, angry lazy parenting that is spanking. And hopefully, I too will prevent some child abuse.

I can't even imagine not liking my child (and stating it publically). I am so sorry for both you and your son, who has to live with this fact.

Posted by: DebC on August 7, 2003 09:46 AM

Steve,
I understand your concern and reasoning but don't agree with it. I see two problems with this device. First, pain is pain and though it might not lead to permanent physical damage, that fact alone will mean the parent will feel less inhibited in using it. I have a fear it will cause permanent psycological damage and teach the child that inflicting pain is a valid way to solve problems. The potential for abuse of this product just seems immense.

and about your son. The best parents who do everything right will sometimes have children that grow up to be horrible adults and the worst parents will sometimes raise the most wonderful adults. Sometimes genetics and personality just trump environment. Just because your son turned out bad doesn't mean he turned out that way because you 'never layed a hand on him'. Sometimes outcomes are beyond our control. IN fact, what if you did lay a hand on him, or a b-stick, he might have turned out much worse, a murderer, extremely violent or worse.

Posted by: Trey on August 7, 2003 10:20 AM

Trey,

You are so wrong. I've purchased the b-stik and it works great! I've only had to use it once so far. And I don't think I'll be needing to use it again. I tried all of the other methods -- but nothing worked. This did.

PS: All 5 kids in my family were spanked. And none of use are murderers, or extremely violent.

Posted by: Susan on August 26, 2003 09:15 PM

I would like to shed some Light on this subject. Not as an inventor, Not as an investor, Not as someone physically abusing/disciplining their children...BUT as a woman with PTSD. PTSD is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and is the result of trauma during childhood. The traumatic response is to PSYCHIATRIC INJURY, not physical injury as you erroneously allude to. Whether or not you leave a bruise on a child is NOT the issue, it's that REAL psychological damage is done when inflicting fear/torment/confusion upon a child (like, Oh, say: Sending electrical shocks through their body!)... and I am just still in awe of everyone here ignoring that very important fact!!
I purchased your product & it scared the sh*t out of me & I am an adult in my 30s! It reminded me of how a known abuser altered the degree of shock on taser guns to torture, confuse & shock without doing significant physical damage, so that more & longer enduring torture could be applied....with DEVASTATING emotional results.
As to the woman who ignorantly assumed her son's criminal actions were the result of not spanking ~ I'm sorry her son turned out to be a perpetrator but statistics and experience absolutely refute her theory. My own case is a simplified example: There are 4 siblings, 2 turned out to be drug/alcohol users/abusers - 2 did not. 3 went to college, 1 did not. None spank their children as a regular means of discipline. All have children themselves. Now, possibly if the author I'm referring to had TWO children...she'd know this. I have 2 children & they are as different as night & day. Consequences that work for one, have no impact on another. Instead of TAKING THE EASY WAY OUT & inventing devices to 'train' our children (as though they are animals) how about investing TIME & ENERGY into our children to find out WHO they are & what means of motivation works for them? Oh, that's right! Then we'd have to put our children as priorities instead of property...not go out so often or buy so many things because we are spending our time/resources on extracurricular activites, books to read with our children, gas in our vehicles to take our children to parks and other places to appreciate the wonder of life. I ponder if the women who defended electrically shocking children as discipline (because her son ended up incarcerated & she didn't spank him) ever put her son on a baseball team? Did she go to all the Parent/Teacher conferences? What did they decide upon when reading the latest career choice books/literature when he was in High School? Did she give him the opportunity of an education? Did she provide him with a loving extended support via family or circle of friends to harbor self esteem and connection to others? hmmmmm Makes ya wonder, doesn't it?
HOW DO YOU WANT TO BE TREATED? TREAT YOUR CHILDREN WITH THE SAME DIGNITY.
~Appalled Mother in California

Posted by: A concerned Mom on August 28, 2003 10:04 AM

I think this is a great idea. Schools are seeing the effects of the absence of physical discipline in the home. People (including children) ARE animals, and they learn to behave first through having negative consequences for their actions. How many of us have seen a child misbehaving and being told by their parents repeatedly "Don't do that don't do that", and the kid continues to misbehave? Yet when the brat gets a swat on the butt, he or she knocks it off. Amazing how that works.

Most of us who are fed up with ill-mannered louts in society were spanked when WE were ill-mannered as children. We learned to behave, and we're disgusted with those who did not get taught to do so themselves.

Posted by: Mariah on September 1, 2003 04:13 PM

"WAKE UP" & spend a day in your local town or county courts and see the number of child abuse cases. Children with bruises and parents, step parents, boyfriends & girlfriends of the parent, all sorry in there fit of anger that picked up the closest object and struck the child. Maybe if there was this b-stik or a product similar to it in the home, some of these incidents would not have ended up in whats already a backed up court system.

Posted by: Robert on September 6, 2003 07:26 AM

To -- A concerned Mom --

You state that you purchased the B-Stik. Then you go on to say something about the fact that it reminds you of "shock on taser guns to torture"

WELL -- You did not buy the B-STIK!!

How do I know this? Simple. I have one and it is NOT a taser or an electric shock devise of any kind. IT IS A PILLOW!!!!

Why don't you at least try and get your facts straight.

You have some serious mental problems!!!

Posted by: Susan on September 7, 2003 01:19 PM

Susan,
Actually, I stated it had the EFFECT of a taser.... And YES, I DO know the difference! Will you let your partner use it on YOU when they are frustrated? Hmmmmmmm Boy,you sure were defensive...and yes I purchased it bc it is part of a lecture/inservice on how DANGEROUS devices are that do NOT show signs of the abuse. Many in military & our government have 'tool's' that do not leave marks also...yet they are not 'safe' by ANY MEANS. I speak from experience...where do you speak from?
Again you ignore the mention of what the Psychological effects are on these children. Did you know how many are in our healthcare system even TODAY from 'non-brusing' methods of discipline? Well denial and ignorance have always been the path of least resistance...Why bother investing the energy in learning about & changing negative patterns of behavior now? I hear you loud & clear...but, still you are not listening.

Posted by: Concerned Mother on September 9, 2003 10:34 AM

Mariah,
Actually, the most devastating effects upon children in our school systems today is NOT physical abuse... It is Emotional Abuse, followed by neglect. Both stem from situations where parents are too 'busy' or 'unavailable' to provide empathetic re-direction and/or problem solving skills. Something you are NOT teaching your child by shocking them to attention either verbally/physically or emotionally. This creates low self-esteem which is statistically and research related to drug/alcohol abuse, dropping out of school, becoming involved in criminal activities etc., etc. It does NOT teach children how to analyze what they have done or should have done & then teach them the correct thing to do. Even Animal trainers will tell you that a shock collar is the lowest/laziest form of dog training & seldom works nearly 1/2 as well as behavior training. Read up some on this topic, I think it would be very enlightening for you.

Posted by: Concerned Mother on September 9, 2003 10:45 AM

To Concerned Mother:

Actually, I do allow my partner to use it on me. It works great for massage. I LOVE IT!

Kids have been spanked since the dawn of time and life managed to move along. I do not believe that spanking leads to long term mental issues. You speak of "Psychological" effects -- well I think the drugs that the "Dr’s" want to force down kids throats today should be of far greater concern than a parent who spanks their child. Oh and by the way – I did say – THEIR child. NOT YOURS!!!!!

Posted by: Susan on September 9, 2003 10:01 PM

Susan,
I agree that too many parents are looking for a way to 'control' their children instead of nurture/educate...including medications which are unnecessary. That is a different topic entirely. You also make mention of 'their' child, as opposed to 'my' child(ren)...Thank God! BUT honestly *I* feel that we are ALL responsible and capable to aid children and invest in children- even those that are not 'ours' so to speak. My house, for instance is usually full of kids & yet *I* only have 2! I know from experience there also, how many parents just want their children to 'perform' or 'act as they are told' or just Go Away...instead of allowing any type of outlet for their frustrations, growing up dilemnas, redirection and learning from trial/error & life experiences, etc.
I still stand on the original dislike of this, and other methods of corporal punishment...and I have proven success as my oldest is in GATES and was also Huggies baby, despite her hyperactivity. I didn't choose to tranquilize her or shock her or hurt her... I chose to work WITH her abilities just like her disadvantages and go from there. It's definately working for me and many other parents I work with! :)

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